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Start from the bottom of this post'
Ez'
Nobu +
Bro!
What you need to understand is Kratom is sedating' you intend to add ativan/or another choice benzos to this herb' non of these substances you speak of shall kill kratom'
Kratom binds to opiate receptors' benzos bind to GABA and benzodiazepine receptors'
you are attempting to "Bosh" two different neurochemical systems'
Now you say that the symptoms are possibly due to MS'
This is a new issue' no one of just anxiety causing blood-pressure problems' this is a neurological problem' non specific to anxiety and blood-pressure problems'
I shall attempt to engage my brain again and give you my open advice'
>>>Can anyone share their experiences with the anxiety that is sometimes reported with Kratom. If I remember right it is associated with the lower doses and then becomes more mellow at higher doses? How intense does the anxiety get?
For someone who is already prone to anxiety and acute high blood pressure during attacks, how would somebody manage this? Would it be safe to combine Kratom with a benzo like ativan or xanax? <<<
OK' Low dose Kratom is stymulating' dependant upon of which Kratom you are using'
If you dose 10 grams you shall expand your conciousness and become quite num' through binding of the Kratom alks to opiate receptors' hence sedated'
Also we now find out that your anxieties are more like sezuers possibly due to MS'
Seeing as you intend to partake of Kratom for recreational purposes I would first find out the root of your problem with these sezuers'
If you take a reasonable dose of Kratom and attempt to follow it with ativan' you shall no doubt pass out and experience cardio-depression + breathing'
So I no advice you do this'
Dicentia is anti-spasmodic and also sedating' it is a very powerful herb on it's own or mixed in kombo with Kratom'
Of what medications and of what diagnosis have got with the symptoms you have already given ?
I would suggest you get some good kratom and do some light experimentations' 5 grams would get your feet wet so to speak'
Your questions do in no way relate to taking kratom with benzos'
The root of your question was out of wack'
this is of why you got the responce you got'
If you had stated initialy that the anxiety/blood-pressure was rooted in possible MS' non of this post would have evolved'
So to be clear' anxiety/blood-pressure based in neurological sezures due to MS'
How to control these sezuires if they hit whilst on kratom ?
To that question I say "No benzos" use Valerian and Dicentia' the kratom shall only last 6 hours' then you shall start to come down'
Find the root of the sezuires before getting coragious with these herbs'
My best input on the information available'
Be Safe!
Be Well!
Nobu +
reply to this post Sent...
161 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureToday, 3:21 AM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
I wont be using any other drugs or herbs. Hopefully this entire question will be a non issue, but I just like to know what my options are should anything come up. Is taking ativan an option if I start feeling strange or is it not an option?
Spacing the drugs out isnt especially helpful advice to someone who needs it when they need it. It might be helpful if this was a recreational question and time wasnt a factor. Ideally i wont take the benzo at all and wont need to or want to. I just want to know if its safe an what kind of interaction it might have and choosing how far to space it out might not be an option.
reply to this post Flint
167 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureToday, 1:07 AM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
and as an herbalist, you are not giving us any information about what drugs and herbs you do use, that work. So i'm not sure how relevant anyones answer can be, ya know? its not like you are asking on a whim, its serious. correct?
reply to this post Flint
167 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureToday, 1:04 AM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
'What I do want is some simple advice on harm reduction.''
you already got that. reread the posts. phrasing your point a different way is not going to get a new answer. Perhaps if you weren't defensive, you would get a different response. We aren't here for you to demand information without even thanking anyone for anything they have had to say. Or i am not, anyway. Or maybe you can tie us up and make us answer you the way you prefer. :)
reply to this post Sent...
161 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureToday, 12:56 AM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
I dont use the benzos very often. I have gone up to 3 months straight without having to use them. I dont take them daily.
Valarian, Skullcap and kava all help with general anxiety but none of them have ever stopped a panic attack for me. Also, I might not really be having panic attacks but partial seizures related to having Multiple Sclerosis. I have meditated for years and relaxation techniques have failed to stop these attacks that have raised my blood pressure to dangerous levels. There is more going on than just psychological issues here and the symptoms are severe enough to not just brush off.
Based on the research I have seen a small dose of Kratom can actually produce anxiety while a high dose calms you down. I dont think I asked a dumb question at all. I am not experienced with this plant, so I asked an uninformed question. I would suggest attempting to be more polite when you offer somebody advice.
From what I have read, the remedy for anxiety from low doses of Kratom is to take a higher dose....though I hope you can understand why someone who experiences panic attacks which might be partial seizures would be wary of that approach.
The benzos are important for me, especially if these are partial seizures causing my symptoms. Lorazapam could stop a potentially life threatening event. No judgment please. I have gone months without taking them and do rely on skullcap and Ashwaghanda as a preventative, but I dont want any guilt trips about using this medicine if you dont understand my medical history.
What I do want is some simple advice on harm reduction. I asked a question about the safety of a combo. I didnt come here for a guilt trip so kindly get off your high horse. Im not even trying to get high. Im looking for alternative methods of pain management and have a question about what is safe to use if I have an event while under the influence of this medicine.
reply to this post Nobu...
145 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureYesterday, 12:44 PM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
Just my five on this subject'
Kratom is no worse than coffee'
THROW THOSE CRAP CHEMICALS AWAY' THEY ARE ADDICTIVE AND ALSO MAKE YOU PRONE TO EVEN WORSE ANXIETIES'
Use Valerian root' or for more sedation Bleeding heart with the Kratom'
Take control of yourself' as "Flint" said' learn some Yoga' learn of who and what you are and of why you vibrate in certain situations'
Tai Chi is awesome to get all those energies flowing correctly'
Also learn to "Bathe"
Water is your friend'
KNOW THYSELF'
All is mind'
Let it go'
OCD is a complete and utter waste of time'
Learn to meditate and breath' sit the head monkey down' cross his legs and arms' put all the head toys away in their correct place and play with one toy at a time'
Then tell him to'
"Shut the fuck up"
BE STILL AND KNOW THAT "I AM GOD"
BE STILL AND KNOW THAT' "I AM THE I AM''
Command your head space'
Mind can only look in one direction at one time' it is up to you of which direction mind looks' no thing else'
Stand in Love'
Be Loved'
Bliss!
Nobu Nganga +
reply to this post Nobu...
145 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureYesterday, 12:12 PM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
what to do if I have a panic attack while on kratom
UH ???
How the hell are you going to have a panic attack on something that relaxes you' hahahaha
I got to say' eat it first before attempting to bend the experience with your own psychi' and then asking kind of dum questions'
Feelings exagorated appearing real' is just that'
All in your head'
Ez
Nobu +
This strikes me of folks who ask of what the time is whilst partaking of ritual and ceremony'
When asked why they require to know the time' the reply is'
"I need to be in control'' (then proceed to chuck up for 4-5 hours until "Ordered to stop' it is all in your head" of which they do' instantly)
:))) Control of what ???
You can no take yourself/ego/mind your body your past/future with you' your journey has started'
Everything IS
And
You are Everything'
Let go and go !!
Be Well!
reply to this post Flint
167 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureThu, November 5, 2009 - 5:37 PM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
perhaps you mis understand
separate the two substances by some hours,(kratom and xanax) for chemical safety. my 2 cents. disregard at will. Indeed, if you take too large a dose of kratom, in the beginning, the xanax would just make one incoherant, but not stop or knock out the experience.
perhaps you should consider taking a very small amount, say what would be in a tea bag, to see if you are uncomfortable or not. Like most strong herbs. tiny bits to check the waters.
sometimes, when you take a plant teacher, making its lesson go away with with xanax simply won't work. i know. some medicines just bypass benzo's, hard as it may be to beleive.
you know, that anything that changes your metabolism, may interact very differently, from one person to another, on benzo;s. There is no
off the hook answer. Who knows whats going to happen with your meds and kratom? wiring like this varies considerably from person to person. And, i have been on benzos for years, and really got tired of the crap, and started kundalini yoga. One has to find ways to deal with anxiety attacks in a non chemical way. that type of yoga truly loosens the exact muscles that contract and react during a panic attack. If your
muscles and mind are in co ordination, you may releive yourself, physically, of anxiety attacks. Not sure either, but i would fathom to bet i was more medicated than yourself too, but in the end, one has to address the state of anxiety as a state of mind, within yourself. Unless you are going to throw yourself off a building, an anxiety attack is not nessisarily an emergency. Just highly uncomfortable for ones mind.
taking a serious look at your roots of anxiety, and see which ones need a medicine of a plant, and which need a mental medicine. In many systems of refrence, its simply called mental hygeine. When the observer part of you informs your concious of why you have anxiety, you can start to choose healing modalities that will not waste as much of your time, and in particular, be effective for you.
Sent...
161 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureThu, November 5, 2009 - 4:48 PM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
I dont think you understand the context of my question. I am not asking how to potentiate the opiate effect with benzos for enjoyment. I am asking what to do if I have a panic attack while on kratom and if it would be safe to treat the event with a benzo or with another remedy in an emergency situation. This is not about what combination will be the most enjoyable. That also means that time is a factor and I dont want to be waiting hours to treat the event.
reply to this post Thanos
35 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureWed, November 4, 2009 - 4:37 PM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
Safe, i'm sure, but to what end?
I've found that Kratom doesn't mix well with alcohol. Doesn't hurt me, just doesn't have that synergystic effct of say, a beer and a bong. They seem to struggle against each other. I have no scientific reasoning on this, just seems to be. being an addict, I still occasionally do it, lol.
reply to this post Nobu...
145 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureWed, November 4, 2009 - 12:32 PM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
Hehehe' Good evening' Good evening' been stomping fields and speakin wiv fungi N' woods :)))
Love & Light
+NM+
Nobu +
reply to this post Flint
167 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureWed, November 4, 2009 - 12:02 PM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
morning iron gorilla! :)
reply to this post Nobu...
145 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureWed, November 4, 2009 - 12:01 PM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
Yes! No probs' just watch Ya dose'
Be Safe!
Be Well!
+NM+
Nobu +
reply to this post Flint
167 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureWed, November 4, 2009 - 11:48 AM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
' Would it be safe to combine Kratom with a benzo like ativan or xanax?''
chemicals = xanax/ativan silly.
reply to this post Flint
167 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureWed, November 4, 2009 - 11:47 AM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
never mind.
reply to this post Sent...
161 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureWed, November 4, 2009 - 11:45 AM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
Huh?
reply to this post Flint
167 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureMon, November 2, 2009 - 8:27 PM
in response to: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
separate the chemicals from the kratom by some hours.
reply to this post Sent...
161 .Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureMon, November 2, 2009 - 7:32 PM
Can anyone share their experiences with the anxiety that is sometimes reported with Kratom. If I remember right it is associated with the lower doses and then becomes more mellow at higher doses? How intense does the anxiety get?
For someone who is already prone to anxiety and acute high blood pressure during attacks, how would somebody manage this? Would it be safe to combine Kratom with a benzo like ativan or xanax?
Just so we can see of where we are with kratom and benzos'
Bliss!
Nobu +
Ez'
Nobu +
Bro!
What you need to understand is Kratom is sedating' you intend to add ativan/or another choice benzos to this herb' non of these substances you speak of shall kill kratom'
Kratom binds to opiate receptors' benzos bind to GABA and benzodiazepine receptors'
you are attempting to "Bosh" two different neurochemical systems'
Now you say that the symptoms are possibly due to MS'
This is a new issue' no one of just anxiety causing blood-pressure problems' this is a neurological problem' non specific to anxiety and blood-pressure problems'
I shall attempt to engage my brain again and give you my open advice'
>>>Can anyone share their experiences with the anxiety that is sometimes reported with Kratom. If I remember right it is associated with the lower doses and then becomes more mellow at higher doses? How intense does the anxiety get?
For someone who is already prone to anxiety and acute high blood pressure during attacks, how would somebody manage this? Would it be safe to combine Kratom with a benzo like ativan or xanax? <<<
OK' Low dose Kratom is stymulating' dependant upon of which Kratom you are using'
If you dose 10 grams you shall expand your conciousness and become quite num' through binding of the Kratom alks to opiate receptors' hence sedated'
Also we now find out that your anxieties are more like sezuers possibly due to MS'
Seeing as you intend to partake of Kratom for recreational purposes I would first find out the root of your problem with these sezuers'
If you take a reasonable dose of Kratom and attempt to follow it with ativan' you shall no doubt pass out and experience cardio-depression + breathing'
So I no advice you do this'
Dicentia is anti-spasmodic and also sedating' it is a very powerful herb on it's own or mixed in kombo with Kratom'
Of what medications and of what diagnosis have got with the symptoms you have already given ?
I would suggest you get some good kratom and do some light experimentations' 5 grams would get your feet wet so to speak'
Your questions do in no way relate to taking kratom with benzos'
The root of your question was out of wack'
this is of why you got the responce you got'
If you had stated initialy that the anxiety/blood-pressure was rooted in possible MS' non of this post would have evolved'
So to be clear' anxiety/blood-pressure based in neurological sezures due to MS'
How to control these sezuires if they hit whilst on kratom ?
To that question I say "No benzos" use Valerian and Dicentia' the kratom shall only last 6 hours' then you shall start to come down'
Find the root of the sezuires before getting coragious with these herbs'
My best input on the information available'
Be Safe!
Be Well!
Nobu +
reply to this post Sent...
161 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureToday, 3:21 AM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
I wont be using any other drugs or herbs. Hopefully this entire question will be a non issue, but I just like to know what my options are should anything come up. Is taking ativan an option if I start feeling strange or is it not an option?
Spacing the drugs out isnt especially helpful advice to someone who needs it when they need it. It might be helpful if this was a recreational question and time wasnt a factor. Ideally i wont take the benzo at all and wont need to or want to. I just want to know if its safe an what kind of interaction it might have and choosing how far to space it out might not be an option.
reply to this post Flint
167 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureToday, 1:07 AM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
and as an herbalist, you are not giving us any information about what drugs and herbs you do use, that work. So i'm not sure how relevant anyones answer can be, ya know? its not like you are asking on a whim, its serious. correct?
reply to this post Flint
167 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureToday, 1:04 AM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
'What I do want is some simple advice on harm reduction.''
you already got that. reread the posts. phrasing your point a different way is not going to get a new answer. Perhaps if you weren't defensive, you would get a different response. We aren't here for you to demand information without even thanking anyone for anything they have had to say. Or i am not, anyway. Or maybe you can tie us up and make us answer you the way you prefer. :)
reply to this post Sent...
161 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureToday, 12:56 AM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
I dont use the benzos very often. I have gone up to 3 months straight without having to use them. I dont take them daily.
Valarian, Skullcap and kava all help with general anxiety but none of them have ever stopped a panic attack for me. Also, I might not really be having panic attacks but partial seizures related to having Multiple Sclerosis. I have meditated for years and relaxation techniques have failed to stop these attacks that have raised my blood pressure to dangerous levels. There is more going on than just psychological issues here and the symptoms are severe enough to not just brush off.
Based on the research I have seen a small dose of Kratom can actually produce anxiety while a high dose calms you down. I dont think I asked a dumb question at all. I am not experienced with this plant, so I asked an uninformed question. I would suggest attempting to be more polite when you offer somebody advice.
From what I have read, the remedy for anxiety from low doses of Kratom is to take a higher dose....though I hope you can understand why someone who experiences panic attacks which might be partial seizures would be wary of that approach.
The benzos are important for me, especially if these are partial seizures causing my symptoms. Lorazapam could stop a potentially life threatening event. No judgment please. I have gone months without taking them and do rely on skullcap and Ashwaghanda as a preventative, but I dont want any guilt trips about using this medicine if you dont understand my medical history.
What I do want is some simple advice on harm reduction. I asked a question about the safety of a combo. I didnt come here for a guilt trip so kindly get off your high horse. Im not even trying to get high. Im looking for alternative methods of pain management and have a question about what is safe to use if I have an event while under the influence of this medicine.
reply to this post Nobu...
145 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureYesterday, 12:44 PM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
Just my five on this subject'
Kratom is no worse than coffee'
THROW THOSE CRAP CHEMICALS AWAY' THEY ARE ADDICTIVE AND ALSO MAKE YOU PRONE TO EVEN WORSE ANXIETIES'
Use Valerian root' or for more sedation Bleeding heart with the Kratom'
Take control of yourself' as "Flint" said' learn some Yoga' learn of who and what you are and of why you vibrate in certain situations'
Tai Chi is awesome to get all those energies flowing correctly'
Also learn to "Bathe"
Water is your friend'
KNOW THYSELF'
All is mind'
Let it go'
OCD is a complete and utter waste of time'
Learn to meditate and breath' sit the head monkey down' cross his legs and arms' put all the head toys away in their correct place and play with one toy at a time'
Then tell him to'
"Shut the fuck up"
BE STILL AND KNOW THAT "I AM GOD"
BE STILL AND KNOW THAT' "I AM THE I AM''
Command your head space'
Mind can only look in one direction at one time' it is up to you of which direction mind looks' no thing else'
Stand in Love'
Be Loved'
Bliss!
Nobu Nganga +
reply to this post Nobu...
145 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureYesterday, 12:12 PM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
what to do if I have a panic attack while on kratom
UH ???
How the hell are you going to have a panic attack on something that relaxes you' hahahaha
I got to say' eat it first before attempting to bend the experience with your own psychi' and then asking kind of dum questions'
Feelings exagorated appearing real' is just that'
All in your head'
Ez
Nobu +
This strikes me of folks who ask of what the time is whilst partaking of ritual and ceremony'
When asked why they require to know the time' the reply is'
"I need to be in control'' (then proceed to chuck up for 4-5 hours until "Ordered to stop' it is all in your head" of which they do' instantly)
:))) Control of what ???
You can no take yourself/ego/mind your body your past/future with you' your journey has started'
Everything IS
And
You are Everything'
Let go and go !!
Be Well!
reply to this post Flint
167 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureThu, November 5, 2009 - 5:37 PM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
perhaps you mis understand
separate the two substances by some hours,(kratom and xanax) for chemical safety. my 2 cents. disregard at will. Indeed, if you take too large a dose of kratom, in the beginning, the xanax would just make one incoherant, but not stop or knock out the experience.
perhaps you should consider taking a very small amount, say what would be in a tea bag, to see if you are uncomfortable or not. Like most strong herbs. tiny bits to check the waters.
sometimes, when you take a plant teacher, making its lesson go away with with xanax simply won't work. i know. some medicines just bypass benzo's, hard as it may be to beleive.
you know, that anything that changes your metabolism, may interact very differently, from one person to another, on benzo;s. There is no
off the hook answer. Who knows whats going to happen with your meds and kratom? wiring like this varies considerably from person to person. And, i have been on benzos for years, and really got tired of the crap, and started kundalini yoga. One has to find ways to deal with anxiety attacks in a non chemical way. that type of yoga truly loosens the exact muscles that contract and react during a panic attack. If your
muscles and mind are in co ordination, you may releive yourself, physically, of anxiety attacks. Not sure either, but i would fathom to bet i was more medicated than yourself too, but in the end, one has to address the state of anxiety as a state of mind, within yourself. Unless you are going to throw yourself off a building, an anxiety attack is not nessisarily an emergency. Just highly uncomfortable for ones mind.
taking a serious look at your roots of anxiety, and see which ones need a medicine of a plant, and which need a mental medicine. In many systems of refrence, its simply called mental hygeine. When the observer part of you informs your concious of why you have anxiety, you can start to choose healing modalities that will not waste as much of your time, and in particular, be effective for you.
Sent...
161 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureThu, November 5, 2009 - 4:48 PM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
I dont think you understand the context of my question. I am not asking how to potentiate the opiate effect with benzos for enjoyment. I am asking what to do if I have a panic attack while on kratom and if it would be safe to treat the event with a benzo or with another remedy in an emergency situation. This is not about what combination will be the most enjoyable. That also means that time is a factor and I dont want to be waiting hours to treat the event.
reply to this post Thanos
35 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureWed, November 4, 2009 - 4:37 PM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
Safe, i'm sure, but to what end?
I've found that Kratom doesn't mix well with alcohol. Doesn't hurt me, just doesn't have that synergystic effct of say, a beer and a bong. They seem to struggle against each other. I have no scientific reasoning on this, just seems to be. being an addict, I still occasionally do it, lol.
reply to this post Nobu...
145 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureWed, November 4, 2009 - 12:32 PM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
Hehehe' Good evening' Good evening' been stomping fields and speakin wiv fungi N' woods :)))
Love & Light
+NM+
Nobu +
reply to this post Flint
167 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureWed, November 4, 2009 - 12:02 PM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
morning iron gorilla! :)
reply to this post Nobu...
145 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureWed, November 4, 2009 - 12:01 PM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
Yes! No probs' just watch Ya dose'
Be Safe!
Be Well!
+NM+
Nobu +
reply to this post Flint
167 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureWed, November 4, 2009 - 11:48 AM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
' Would it be safe to combine Kratom with a benzo like ativan or xanax?''
chemicals = xanax/ativan silly.
reply to this post Flint
167 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureWed, November 4, 2009 - 11:47 AM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
never mind.
reply to this post Sent...
161 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureWed, November 4, 2009 - 11:45 AM
in response to: Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
Huh?
reply to this post Flint
167 .Re: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureMon, November 2, 2009 - 8:27 PM
in response to: Kratom and anxiety / blood pressure
separate the chemicals from the kratom by some hours.
reply to this post Sent...
161 .Kratom and anxiety / blood pressureMon, November 2, 2009 - 7:32 PM
Can anyone share their experiences with the anxiety that is sometimes reported with Kratom. If I remember right it is associated with the lower doses and then becomes more mellow at higher doses? How intense does the anxiety get?
For someone who is already prone to anxiety and acute high blood pressure during attacks, how would somebody manage this? Would it be safe to combine Kratom with a benzo like ativan or xanax?
Just so we can see of where we are with kratom and benzos'
Bliss!
Nobu +
posted by:
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Re: Kratom anxiety and taking benzos etc'
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 2:17 PMi take it someone was offended?
oh well, no time to waste with that one. -
-
Re: Kratom anxiety and taking benzos etc'
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 6:44 PMYeah, I did feel a little offended actually and I felt like I was being judged instead of just educated. I also dont understand why you felt the need to bring this back instead of just letting it be.
Anyway, I sought some advice elsewhere and found a few people who have actually tried mixing benzos with Kratom with success. After reading their reports and being advised to start slowly, I did exactly that. The experience was pretty nice. Not nearly as nice as real opium or real opium + benzos, but it was perfectly safe and my heart didnt stop and my breathing was just fine. Actually, I seem to feel less sedated with Kratom than I do with other opiates. I think the risk of respiratory distress was greatly exaggerated by some people in this thread.
I would also like to point out that I was not using this combination recreationally. I mean, I do like being mildy euphoric but this isnt about thrill seeking behavior. I am in a lot of pain and I am seeking natural alternatives for pain management and comparing them to standard medications that I have been using. I am using low doses because my goal is to cope with chronic pain rather than getting high, which is why I am not high risk for overdose even with the benzos.
I am doing everything I can to treat the underlying condition. Unfortunately there is no cure, besides maybe stem cells which is still experimental and more than I can afford.
I felt a little disrespected in this thread. Its beyond me why you would resurrect it just to keep hammering away when you could let it lay. -
-
Re: Kratom anxiety and taking benzos etc'
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 7:10 PMI would also like to add that telling people to use Valarian with opiates is terrible advice. Valarian is much more sedating than ativan and if you are trying to avoid respiratory depression and unconsciousness valarian is NOT a safer alternative. I once made the mistake of combining valarian with opiates. That was a close call.
Natural does not necessarily = safer. -
-
Re: Kratom anxiety and taking benzos etc'
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 7:39 PMi will make it simple for you.
its your attitude.
and viewing your response, you must be oblivious to how you come off, thus the conversation.
people are a mirror of your own inner state. You have seen me be unpleasent. Now its your turn to be seen as unpleasent. Now drop the attitude, you are not so much different or better than others. Remember, it was i that was willing to keep the dialog open concerning 'your friends' condition, despite of your dislike for how i do things, or my attitude. It was yourself that decided to rise above talking to me, even tho it was you that originally wrote. So join the human condition. And there also, is the explanation as to why i have answered you in the manner i have. good evening sir.
-
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Re: Kratom anxiety and taking benzos etc'
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 8:04 PMThanks for the advice.
Anyway, this combination appears to be perfectly safe when small doses of both drugs are used as doses appropriate for moderate pain management. I was able to get some analgesia from lower levels and yet not experience the 'edginess' that some users report at the lower doses. I will likely use this combination again.
Sorry if I came off like a dick on my end. I sometimes operate on little sleep and am often in pain so I might not have realized how I sounded. Hopefully we can start fresh.
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Re: Kratom anxiety and taking benzos etc'
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 9:00 PMfresh starts are always a good thing. :)
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Re: Kratom anxiety and taking benzos etc'
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 2:13 AMBrother!
Run back through this post'
Read of what has been said'
No you think it a bit strange that of those whom answered you rubbed you up the wrong way ?
I work with this stuff daily' I help folks transcend addiction syndromes'
Benzos are no bodies friend'
No take Benzos' you shall get addicted to them and it shall take you many months to kick the habit'
I have used Valerian extencively with hundreds of clients to no ill effects'
We use Valerian to bring folks off of Benzos' and calm folks after initiation'
It can be taken daily in doses of 200-1000mg for many days with no ill effects upon withdrawal'
All the pharmacutical Benzodiazapines are addictive and can only be used for 5 days before withdrawal'
How can you say Ativan is safer than Valerian ?
Love & Light'
Nobu +
P.S. I have had/have got serious lower back pain' I have been using hot water bottles and Valerian for the pain'
I got Kratom' Opium and Ibogaine amongst an array of other plants and some pretty mean pharmacutical opiates the likes of Codiene and Diconal and Palfium'
Why do you think I stick to hot water bottles and Valerian ?
Have a lovely Sunday folks' smile and spread the smiles across the face of the planet'
Shine Bright'
Be Well!
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Re: Kratom anxiety and taking benzos etc'
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 1:37 AMI would also like to add that telling people to use Valarian with opiates is terrible advice. Valarian is much more sedating than ativan and if you are trying to avoid respiratory depression and unconsciousness valarian is NOT a safer alternative. I once made the mistake of combining valarian with opiates. That was a close call.
Sorry' you are way out of wack'
Ativan is banned in the UK' cos it it a heavy sedative'
Valerian is a mild plant in doeses of 200-400mg'
As I said to you' start off slow'
If you had took 10 grams of good Kratom with ya benzo you would of been in trouble'
Bro!
Why are you so defencive'
Everything you have posted has been covered here'
We said go slow' this is of what you' experiment yourself'
Your initial post was out of wack' so you got out of wach back'
Glad you got to the bottom of your conundrum :)))
Blessings
Nobu + -
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Re: Kratom anxiety and taking benzos etc'
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 1:41 AMLorazepam, initially marketed under the brand names Ativan and Temesta, is a benzodiazepine drug with short to medium duration of action. It has all five intrinsic benzodiazepine effects: anxiolytic, amnesic, sedative/hypnotic, anticonvulsant and muscle relaxant.[4] It is a powerful anxiolytic, and, since its introduction in 1977, lorazepam's principal use has been in treating the symptom of anxiety. Among benzodiazepines, lorazepam has a relatively high addictive potential.
Valerian'
Because of valerian's historical use as a sedative, anti-convulsant, migraine treatment and pain reliever, most basic science research has been directed at the interaction of valerian constituents with the GABA neurotransmitter receptor system. These studies remain inconclusive and all require independent replication. The mechanism of action of valerian in general, as a mild sedative in particular, remains unknown. Valerian extracts appear to have some affinity for the GABAA (benzodiazepine) receptor.[2][3]
Valerian also contains isovaltrate, which has been shown to be an agonist for adenosine A1 receptor sites.[4] This action may contribute to the herb's sedative effects.
I know of what I would prefer to take'
You got any other links to say Valerian is more sedating than Ativan ?
Bliss!
Nobu +
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Re: Kratom anxiety and taking benzos etc'
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 2:04 AMAs Thanos said' "What is the point of taking Benzos with Kratom'
A five gram dose of Kratom would no doubt be sedating to you' why add a benzo ?
Fresh starts are good :)))
But now we got you saying stuff the likes of Ativan is better for you than Valerian ???
Plant alchemy is an art'
Why would you add a Benzo to an Opiate ?
Or a sedative to Kratom ?
I see no point of doing either' to what end other than making the opiate effect stronger!
If you study of why folks OD' it is usualy down to a combo of Opiate and a sedative' the likes of Valium etc or alcohol'
So no only being a dangerious combo' you are prepared to back this combo with your Word'
Your Word is your Bond'
This is open forum' the whole world can see of what you write here'
I say now' you are a dangerious man and of what you posted here is dangerious'
I am attempting to mirror you'
You no like yourself bro' hence it comes out in your postings'
I wish you all the best in your quest for peace' but I can say' you shall no find such' experimenting with these plants in the way you are doing so'
I would suggest to you take of "Dieta" and find out of what your body is running on'
Get clean bro!
Get all the rubbish out of your body and find out of whom you are'
Then you can attampt to take the benefit of these plants' without underlying fears of running back to pharmacuticals and GP knowledge'
All the Best'
Nobu + -
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Re: Kratom anxiety and taking benzos etc'
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 2:15 AMPa' -
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Re: Kratom anxiety and taking benzos etc'
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 5:43 AMYou pople just remimded me that I have some valerian root stashed around here somewhere -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Kratom anxiety and taking benzos etc'
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 6:01 AMCool' she is a very good herb' take the edge off of life :)))
Be Well!
Nobu + -
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Re: Kratom anxiety and taking benzos etc'
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 11:50 AMi like chinese snakeroot for that... i got some around here, i should dig it out.
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Re: Kratom anxiety and taking benzos etc'
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 6:31 PMYou are really worked up about this, arnt you Nobu? Im trying to take the high road here and even apologized for being short tempered on my end. What else do you want from me?
I dont know if my panic attacks are regular panic attacks or partial seizures or coritsol deficiency or diabetic or what. Believe me, I am trying to get to the root of it and am not just trying to mask the symptoms. I am having a very difficult time and nothing so far has worked as well as benzos. Also, I may be unusual but opiates sometimes give me intense anxiety, especially the Thebaine based opiates but even some of the others like Hydromorphone.
I appreciate your concern. I have tried a lot of the herbs you have suggested and they did not work for me. Valarian is sort of ok as a preventative, but does not stop acute episodes for me. Also, I have become over sedated from mixing valarian and opiates. Valarian has a very strong impact on me. 1mg of Ativan is mildly sedating when combined with oxycodone, but it doesnt just knock me out the way valarian and opiates do. Maybe you have a more mild reaction to valarian than I do. There is no real way to get to the bottom of this unless we have some large scale double blind placebo controled trials to compare the sedative effects of valarian against ativan.
1mg of ativan will double the effectiveness of whatever opiates I am using for pain, and take away the anxiety they give me. Oxycodone is an especially speedy opiate, at least for me. With morphine I didnt need ativan but with Oxycodone I do.
Im sorry if you dont approve of my use of medications. It would be nice if you could just let it be and let me take my own risks, but if not then I dont know what to tell you.
I have been using benzos for 5 years....no addiction yet. I have gone 3 months at a time without using them and never get cravings. Maybe its because i never use more than 1mg at a time and ONLY use it when I am having panic attacks that I have managed to avoid getting hooked.
I got some advice on another forum that it was safe to mix benzos with Kratom, and sure enough it worked like a charm. Thank you for your genuine concern for my well being though.
I am open to learning about some herbal alternatives to ativan, but I might be more inclined to listen if you filter out the judgment and just offer your advice as a friendly solution.
Again, I am sorry for the short temper on my end. If you would be willing to offer the same on your end I am genuinely offering to start fresh with you. We are all trippers with interesting perspectives here. There is no reason for us to be fighting or taking this so personally. -
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Re: Kratom anxiety and taking benzos etc'
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 2:04 AMGlad to see you made it brother :)))
Self experimentation shall reveal to you of that which you require'
Of what dose of kratom did you get pain relief from ?
Bliss!
Nobu +
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